STEPPING UP MALAYSIA-INDONESIA TIES

By Ahmad Fuad Yahya

JAKARTA, May 17 (Bernama) -- President Susilo Bambang Yodhoyono of Indonesia
is scheduled to visit Kuala Lumpur on Tuesday (May 18) for the annual
consultation to strengthen Malaysia-Indonesia relations and resolve outstanding
issues blocking efforts to improve bilateral ties.

Following is an interview with Indonesian Foreign Minister Dr Marty
Natalegawa by journalists from the Malaysian National News Agency (Bernama) and
the Utusan Malaysia Malay Language daily in conjunction with the annual talks.

Question: Indonesia-Malaysia relations are very good now, as a result of the
hard work put in by the leaders of both countries. Nevertheless, some issues
such as the overlapping territorial claims of 10 years or more seem to be a
thorn. Why are such issues difficult to resolve?

Answer: I believe we have to look at the problems in the proper context,
though at times the focus switches to the problem mentioned. Overall, relations
between Indonesia and Malaysia are close. The ties of friendship are like how
all of us feel. There are one or two problems which should be tackled, which are
appropriate for bilateral ties, what more between neighbours. Of importance to
us at the Foreign Ministry is to put this relationship in the proper context. We
have several challenges but all of these are seen in a wider scope in that the
bilateral relations are very good and close.

Question: We see an ebb and flow in Indonesia-Malaysia relations. At times,
the situation is good, at times tense. Is it due to a lack of a "feel good"
atmosphere in the people-to-people relations? What should be done to establish
the "feel good" atmosphere? What about programmes involving the young people of
both countries, as agreed to in previous annual consultations?

Answer: We face problems probably due to a perception gap. Of course, we
have a problem of perception gap, and as a matter of fact, there is
complementary relation that is interdependent and of benefit to each other, a
win-win situation that is positive, but these close bilateral relations are
always looked at whenever there is a problem.

The challenge facing us is how we can accommodate this problem in a wider
context, the capability of the community, consistency in our relationship. And
it is acknowledged that one of the effective ways is to maintain the
people-to-people contact. Actually, we have extraordinary assets, the
Malaysia-Indonesia assets, as you know there is a large number of Indonesian
nationals working (in Malaysia) and, likewise, there is a large number of
Malaysians studying in Indonesia. It is seen positively when everything runs
smoothly and there is no problem arising, the cordial relation is taken for
granted but when a problem arises, the relationship is questioned. That's the
whole picture, what is in fact the people-to-people contact. This fact is not
made known, whereas it should be highlighted.

We in the ministry intend to form some sort of a fan club, 'friends of
Malaysia in Indonesia'. Likewise in Malaysia, there are fans of Indonesia in
Malaysia. So they become stakeholders. But we must identify the communities who
have such interests in our respective society who will promote positive
relations. So if we talk about Indonesian nationals who are working in Malaysia,
there are thousands of Indonesian nationals (in Malaysia).

For example, if there are cases of Indonesian nationals who are facing
hardship and later pose a problem. I believe the Indonesian nationals working in
Malaysia generally want a peaceful and positive relationship because they want
to work in a calm situation. This desire for a cordial relationship is not
mentioned. Meanwhile, the Malaysian students in Indonesia too want to see
cordial ties being maintained. The stakeholders who want to see this stable
relationship being maintained should be given a channel to express their
opinion.

This is about empowering and giving voice to those stakeholders who have an
interest in promoting Indonesia-Malaysia relations. I think they are out there,
they are there but they need to speak up more, I think this perception gap can
be addressed in a good way.


Question: There is a large number of Indonesian nationals in Malaysia and
the total is now 2.2 million. Sometimes, a small group of them commit crime, and
the Malaysian authorities take action against them including fatal shooting, but
the problem that arises here is that the Indonesian government does not consider
them as criminals, they are considered as Indonesian nationals who should be
given protection. This puts the Malaysian government in a very difficult
situation. How can this problem be resolved without affecting Indonesia-Malaysia
relations?

Answer: I feel this is appropriate in such a situation. The Malaysian
government is responsible for the protection of its nationals abroad, for
example in Indonesia, while Indonesia too has the responsibility to protect its
nationals abroad. However, protection and looking after their welfare does not
mean condoning their criminal activities or granting immunity to those who have
violated the law (of the host country). This is obvious. Certainly every
Indonesian national in Malaysia and every Malaysian national in Indonesia must
comply with the law of the host country.

So, protection does not mean immunity, What we would like to see is that
there is compliance with the local law. The criteria are clear. Malaysian
nationals must comply with the law in our country while Indonesian nationals in
Malaysia must comply with the Malaysian law. Sometimes, problems crop up because
of consular access. But now, we are working together with the Malaysian
government with the signing of the MoU (Memorandum of Understanding) on the
protection of the work force or on the mutual consular access agreement whereby
if a Malaysian national faces a problem in Indonesia, the Malaysian embassy in
Indonesia must be informed quickly. Likewise, if an Indonesian national faces a
problem in Malaysia, the Malaysian authorities should inform the Indonesian
embassy in Malaysia. In other words, our respective embassies and missions must
be able to perform their consular responsibilities.

Consular responsibilities don't mean they are given a blanket exemption from
the law, but only to ensure that they are given a fair hearing, a just hearing
under the prevailing laws and regulations. There is a particular high-profile
case involving an Indonesian national in Malaysia who became a victim of a
shooting incident. The facts of the case were being determined as there were
contradictory evidence from the witnesses. We will ensure that justice will
prevail. We merely want to ensure that every Indonesian national receives
protection from its government but it does not mean they can ignore the law.
This happens in all countries.

Question: As you said earlier, negative issues are easily spread by the
people. What are your plans to ensure that these negative issues are not
highlighted by the people and the media?

Answer: We know that Malaysia, just like Indonesia, is a democratic country.
We have a vibrant civil society, we have a vibrant mass media. In the past,
there was only one opinion in Indonesia, but now this is not possible because of
the open government. So, what we have to do is to create an informed opinion to
the extent that if there is a problem in relationships between the two
countries, we can explain the incident in the proper perspective based on the
mutually reinforced relations that we have. So, there are no short-cuts, we
cannot use force except to create an informed society concerning the actual
Indonesia-Malaysia relations.

For example, there are many problems when we talk about transnational
terrorism, trans-counter terrorism. Indonesia has been working very hard to
eliminate the terrorist threat lately. The perpetrators of terrorism transcend
regional boundaries, some of them come from Indonesia, some from Malaysia and
some from the Philippines. So, in facing the transnational challenges, we have
to tackle the problem jointly for the benefit of everyone. When we talk about
the problems of piracy for example, the Straits of Melaka was once plagued by
the problem of piracy attacks and after Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore
cooperated as littoral states in the Straits of Melaka, the problem eventually
abated.

I think that's a very clear indication of what can be achieved if we set our
minds to working together rather that blaming on this and that party. Certainly
my mindset, my own personal mindset is one of problem solving. I mean it's
normal for two neighbouring countries to have issues that need to be managed.
It's not sinister, it's not unfriendly. It's a fact of life. It's just that we
tackle them with the greatest wisdom and in the context of wider relations.

Question: Malaysia and Indonesia have never relented in their commitment to
resolve common problems, in fact, the commitment continues to be intensified.
This is proven by the exchange of visits by ministers of the two neighbouring
countries. But the visits are not commensurate with the number of issues
resolved, in fact, there are new issues cropping up. What are the obstacles to
efforts in resolving the bilateral issues?

Answer: I believe we need to improve the modalities and framework in
resolving these problems. It's obvious that as neighbouring countries there are
many challenges as well as opportunities that must be identified and exploited.
Now, we must draw up a framework where there is an evaluation system, especially
in identifying issues. For example, when a problem crops up, we can identify it
quickly and remedial action is taken immediately to prevent it from prolonging.

Now, there is annual consultation, by definition it must be held every
year. Now, between the annual consultation between the two leaders, there are
meetings at the ministerial level, to the extent that there are even working
groups which are thematic in nature. Then we meet and prepare a report for the
Joint Commission Meeting (JCM) chaired by the Foreign Minister. Actually, the
Foreign Minister should meet in the JCM format each time before the annual
consultation. Now, this forum had not met since 2004.

Of course, we meet often but not as an official forum. So, we are determined
to ensure that before the annual consultation, there will be detailed
preparation and routine meetings at the working group level.

The JCM is supposed to meet every time before the annual consultation. I
feel that the working group which is thematic in nature, such as the working
group on manpower or the group on transnational crime should meet every three
months, and report the outcome of the meeting to the JCM which is headed by the
foreign ministers.

So in six months, the JCM will report to their leaders and then the next six
months. so if you have a more predictable modality, no issue is left hanging and
unaddressed. I think we are doing it now, but in a more haphazard way, it should
be done in a more structured manner.

Question: On May 18, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono is scheduled to
visit Malaysia for the annual consultation with Prime Minister Najib
Tun Razak. Is Susilo going to offer suggestions to the resolution of the mutual
issues such as Indonesian workforce and overlapping territorial claims?

Answer: I believe the meeting is between the leaders and their ministers. I
feel we should give the heads of government the chance to engage in discussions
in quality time. They should be able to discuss the issues in the big picture,
not hampered by the technical details. Let the technical aspects be taken care
of by the ministers. Surely, the heads of government will offer suggestions to
the outstanding issues for the ministers to resolve, whether they be issues
associated with workforce, investment potential, trade potential, border
problems and others. Honestly, I do not see any problem in handling any issue as
we are close neighbours. It is important that we mould layers of future leaders,
future generations of Indonesians and Malaysians. When there is an issue of
people-to-people contact, every layer of the leaders will understand the
relationship between the two countries.


Question: What is the contribution of the Eminent Persons Group (EPG) to the
annual consultation?

Answer: One of the key elements in the annual consultation is the EPG. The
EPG of Indonesia and Malaysia come together. They have made several
recommendations which we should implement immediately. The Indonesian government
takes pains in implementing these recommendations. In Indonesia, we want to
continue with the EPG, and I hear that the Malaysian side is also considering
the membership.

Question: Indonesia has proven that it can maintain positive economic growth
in the face of a global economic crisis. This has drawn many investors to
Indonesia, including from Malaysia. The number of Malaysian investors in
Indonesia is relatively bigger than Indonesian investors in Malaysia. What can
Kuala Lumpur do to attract more Indonesian investors in view of the fact that
there is already a supply of Indonesian workforce in Malaysia which could be of
benefit?

Answer: Indonesia, relatively, did not feel the impact of the global
financial crisis compared to other economies because Indonesia had learnt much
from the experience of 1998 and 1999 when the whole region was affected and we
implemented prudent financial and fiscal policies. Although Greece is far away,
we cannot be complacent about the contagious effect. On investment, what more
when the Asean economic community is getting stronger. Asean integration - our
mindset should be more integrative in the sense that we should not look at the
flow of investment, flow of trade as either or; we should look at the zero sum,
is it not the natural process? I feel the investors are profit-driven. So, if
there are opportunities in Indonesia for Malaysian investors, naturally they
will come to Indonesia. I am convinced that with the strong Malaysian economy,
which is attractive at this moment, naturally Indonesian investors will also
look at Malaysia. Therefore, this is a win-win situation, mutually reinforced
process.

Question: Malay sia has won the claim on its land in Kemang Raya, southern
Jakarta, which was encroached upon after a 12-year legal process. Besides the
Malaysia-owned land which was encroached upon, some land belonging to Malaysian
investors are facing the threat of encroachment. What assurance can the
Indonesian government give to land owned by investors in this country?

Answer: I do not have any comments on this case specifically. I believe a
decision has been reached regarding the land owned by the Malaysian embassy in
Kemang Raya; what remains is the implementation (of the court order). I do not
know where the problem lies, whether it is with the office of the governor. The
important thing is that the Indonesian government is determined to find a
resolution to the problem. Technical problems such as this will be dealt with at
an appropriate level, not at the level of head of government or minister. But
definitely the matter has received attention. On the general perception of legal
certainty with regard to investor problems, I feel that just like Malaysia,
Indonesia also understands the importance of providing a conducive atmosphere
for investors to bring their capital into our country. One of the criteria is
surely to establish legal certainty. Therefore, cases such as these, I feel, can
be resolved.

-- BERNAMA