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Ulaanbaatar /MONTSAME/ "There is a strong will and there is much work to be done. We just need to define the expected results and then move forward." D.Soyolmaa, a media and communication officer of the Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation (SDC) in Mongolia, invited Mr B. Boldbaatar, the National Director of the “Capacity Strengthening of Local Self-Governing Bodies” (CSLB) Project and the Head of the Secretariat of the State Great Khural (parliament) for an interview about local Citizens’ Representative Khurals and what the project has been doing to strengthen them. Q: My first question to you is about the khurals. What are the main roles of the khurals? What are the Khural members elected for? A: The Constitution of Mongolia clearly stipulates the roles of the local khurals. It is stated that the governance of the administrative and territorial units of Mongolia shall be organized on the basis of the principles of both self-government and central government. The khurals are thus constitutional institutions. They are powerful bodies as they make decisions on issues within their territories. Since the adoption of the Public Sector Management and Finance Law in 2002, some of the khurals’ powers, namely in regard to financial management, have been diminished. However, it has been more than a year since the new Integrated Budget Law (IBL) came into force on 1 January, 2013; it was adopted during the 2008-2012 Parliamentary session. The law gives more power to local self-governing bodies, and corresponding actions have been taken in regard to transferring certain mandates to the khurals. Therefore, today’s khurals’ functions are at a different level. On top of that, there have been intensified efforts to promote direct democracy and civic engagement as an initiative of the President of Mongolia. Citizens’ halls are being opened everywhere. These halls are places where elected representatives, officials and Members of Parliament can meet with their electorates to hear their voices. Recently, a Local Development Fund was established under the IBL, and there is also a Soum Development Fund. It is now possible to openly discuss and decide, with the participation of citizens, such issues as how to spend these funds and what to do with them. In line with the situation that I have outlined, there is a clear need for the khurals to operate in a new and innovative way. For this purpose, the “Capacity Strengthening of Local Self-Governing Bodies” Project was launched in March 2013 in conjunction with UNDP. The Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation (SDC) is providing the main financial support for the project. Q: You mentioned that the newly elected khurals are now operating in a new legal environment. When they were elected, how much did they know about their key roles, and what knowledge and experiences did they have about their key functions? A: Yes, I mentioned that the khurals are now operating within a new legal framework. According to the Integrated Budget Law, the Law on Local Elections and the Law on the Election of the State Great Khural, public servants can no longer be elected as khural members. About 60 percent of the 8200 elected representatives during the 2012 local elections were new people who had never previously been elected. Therefore, there is a clear need to support and train these people to become the voice of their citizens and to solve local issues in accordance with their mandates. Training them on such issues as how to implement the elements of direct democracy and civic engagement is crucial. Q: The project recognizes the need for trainings in order to strengthen the khurals. What is the project doing in order to build their capacities? A: Trainings for khural representatives did not exist in the past 20 years, with the exception of a few that were organized by NGOs. So it can be said that in the 20-year history of the development of local self-governing bodies, the first nationwide training for 8200 representatives of 361 khurals has been launched. The project will include representatives from all aimags, soums and districts and their staff in these trainings, within four years of their term. The training is not one-off, but rather is the start of a nationwide sustainable training mechanism. Sixty-two trainers selected from aimag khural offices, representatives from local governing councils and the national association of baghs and soums are conducting the trainings. The first trainings were held in Bayankhongor, Bayan-Ulgii, Tuv, Khentii and Umnugobi aimags and in the Bayanzurkh, Songinokhairkhan and Sukhbaatar districts of Ulaanbaatar in November 2013; trainings for the remaining 16 aimags and six districts began in February and will continue until the beginning of April 2014. Q: What kind of trainings and programmes are they? What are they actually learning? A: When the project started in June 2013, it conducted a training needs assessment to design capacity building activities for khural members. The assessment found that representatives had expressed the need for seven specific themes: A constitutional and legal framework for local self-governing bodies; civic engagement and relationships with citizens; managing khural meetings; local budgets and financial management; preventing corruption; “green” environmental development; and human rights and gender issues. These themes are crucial for improving their accountability and executing their functions. It is clear that a certain period of time is needed to see the outcomes and impacts of the capacity building trainings for khurals. However, many important results have already been observed. For instance, the participants said the trainings were “timely and much needed”. “Such trainings have not been organised before. Even experienced representatives elected for the third or fourth time said they had learned many things that they did not know before.” This shows that the trainings were much needed and useful. Q: What are the results to date? Could you please share one of the best examples or outstanding stories from an aimag, district or soum/khoroo? A: In general, there are many local khurals that are operating effectively, fulfilling their potential and using their initiative. However, we did observe certain changes after the trainings. After the aimag and district trainings, the participants expressed a great deal of appreciation and praise. Soum khurals used to convene only twice a year to approve the local governors’ action plans and to evaluate their implementation. As a result of the trainings, the representatives understood their legal potential and saw opportunities within themselves. They understood that khurals were able to make decisions and oversee the implementation of those decisions. This requires them to recognise issues beforehand and to demand proper observance of the relevant laws. This is the most significant result. The example of Umnugovi aimag is perhaps the most evident. The “Tavantolgoi Trans” company failed to reflect citizens’ opinions when it developed a railroad project that would have taken it through ecologically important places areas in Manlai, Tsogttsetsii and Sevrei soums. During the capacity building trainings for Umnugovi aimag representatives, participants from those soums showed the draft proposal, which had been signed by all the representatives of khurals in the three soums, and submitted it to the relevant authorities. This has resulted in changes to the railway development plans to ensure the soums’ ecology is not damaged. Q: What kind of problems and challenges do you face in building strong and well-functioning khurals? How do you see the project overcoming those challenges? A: Khurals consist of elected members; their composition changes every four years, and hence it is possible that trained representatives and trainers with strengthened capacities are also changed. No one of us can tell how many of the elected representatives will be re-elected. This means that there will again be a need for the training of representatives after elections, so we have provided the local khurals with handbooks and training materials to organize such trainings using trained local trainers. Giving preference to political party interests when making decisions, without reflecting citizens’ interests and observing local self-governing principles, has negative impacts. This is an issue that needs to be resolved. We believe that we can change this by strengthening the capacity of representatives and by providing them with knowledge and information that brings about real changes in their activities. Q: In recent years, Mongolians have been very keen to learn about citizens’ participation and direct democracy. How can the khurals make sure citizens are participating and are having their say in local decision-making? Is it an easy or hard thing to do? Do citizens actually participate in this? A: The participation of citizens in local elections is usually low, unlike in State Great Khural elections. The same applies to citizen participation in decision-making at local levels. We are focusing on this issue and looking for best practices. We look for options that will enable citizens’ views and opinions to be gathered. Ulaanbaatar city received citizens’ opinions via mobile phone messages on the issue of reducing the city’s traffic jams, which is an example of a new initiative. I saw many good examples of enabling citizens’ participation in decision-making processes during my visit last year to Switzerland. We think that it’s important to learn from these experiences, and to introduce them to decision-makers and local authorities, and to provide them with an opportunity to undertake such visits and see these examples for themselves. For instance, khoroo citizens’ khurals are scheduled to convene at certain times, but not everyone is able to take part at those times. But in Switzerland, citizens are provided with an opportunity to express their views within a certain period of time. Also, we need to look for other means, such as receiving votes and views electronically. That’s why we’re aiming at learning from the experiences of Switzerland by working with SDC. We are working with the khurals to enable citizens to take part in khural sessions and to have their views reflected. A few khurals, such as the Khentii and Orkhon aimag khurals, are already working in this direction. We will encourage and support such initiatives. Q: Strengthening local khurals may require legislative reforms. What is the project doing in regard to legal changes to strengthen the khurals’ roles? A: The Standing Committee on State Structure together with the Orkhon aimag khural organized a khangai region conference for six aimag khurals on theoretical and practical issues under the theme “Improving Local Self-Governing Bodies within the Initiative of From Big Government to Smart Government” from 28 February to 1 March, 2014. During this conference, we heard different views in relation to improving the legal framework of local self-governing bodies. It was noted that about 40 articles of seven laws needed to be amended. It might possibly be necessary to make amendments to the Constitution and to address conflicting stipulations in various laws. Life is rich, and therefore we cannot deny that difficulties that might arise during the implementation of certain laws. Therefore, we need to focus on developing reasonable recommendations. We are also focusing on enabling civic engagement in decision-making processes and are looking for ways in which to make the necessary legal reforms. Q: How do you think these two ideals - having stronger and more powerful khurals and greater citizen participation in decision-making - will go together in the future? A: It is possible for these two ideals to go together. But there is one important issue to consider: Although the khurals are mandated to exercise their power, there is also a need to be cautious about too much politicizing. Mongolia is not a federal state like other countries, but it is a unitary state. Therefore, national unity is important. However, it is certainly possible that these two ideals go together within the bounds of legally mandated power. There is a strong will and there is much work to be done. We just need to define the expected results and then move forward. Q: Any other important points you would like to make? A: The project is being successfully implemented. In less than a year, we have undertaken major actions in many aimags. We don’t deny that there have been mistakes - new actions are not immune to them. It is most important that we correct any mistakes that occur as early as possible. We need to focus on citizens’ general khurals at the khoroo and bagh levels; and from the beginning of the project we realised that there was a need to focus on electorate education. We are grateful that we have government support, and we extend our gratitude to SDC and UNDP for their support.